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folks

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oh please please no no that's too much

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so i'm gideon marcus and i am

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a time

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traveler

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so all the people in this room you are

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master's degrees or phds you spent the

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better part of a decade going to school

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you may still be in school

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and all i had to do to be up here

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so this is it

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in fact if you have those little pocket

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computers those little

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phone evacs that are in your pockets you

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can go pull them out

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pull them out everybody pull them out i

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know you all have you're addicted to

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these things good god

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in the 60s we just have black and white

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television

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if you go to

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galacticjourney.org is this too loud is

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this the right level

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good level okay

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if you go to

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galacticjourney.org you will see

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the presence that we maintain what it is

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it is a time portal to exactly 55 years

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ago what does that mean it moves so

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right now it is may 17

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1967. jimi hendrix has just come out

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with an album which is amazing

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hemlines are up to here star trek just

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finished its first season

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and as it's in its summer reruns not

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everything is great in as many months

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we've lost four space men on both sides

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of the iron curtain in the apollo 1 and

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the soyuz one catastrophes

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right now there are half a million

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american soldiers in south vietnamese

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and countless hundreds of thousands of

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south vietnamese fighting hundreds of

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thousands of north vietnamese

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for some nameless hills somewhere in the

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center of their country

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we have racial injustice we have people

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marching for their rights

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and i'm sure things will be completely

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different in 55 years

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warfare will be a thing of the past we

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will have complete racial harmony and

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justice

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oh and if you're wondering why i'm

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wearing a mask and i see you're all

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wearing masks so i assume the smog

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problem has not been solved in 55 years

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so

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that's what i do and if you're wondering

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how i do it if you go to my house i live

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in vista california which is a lovely

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suburb of san diego it is a bubble back

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in time

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if you tune into the radio station near

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my house i won't give you the frequency

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because i don't want the fcc coming

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after me

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it actually plays that wonderful music

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you heard and by the way everyone can

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tune in if you go to the website

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we have a tv station that plays exactly

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what happened 55 years ago which is a

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mixed blessing because on one hand you

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know we get mission impossible and star

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trek and i spy and

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on the other hand we get gilligan's

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island

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the vast wasteland as fcc chair nelson

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minnow said a few years ago and we've

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got people coming in this is why i'm

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vamping by the way so everyone can come

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in and get the meat of this performance

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so the times are very similar the times

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are very different in some ways but

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they're very similar and if there's one

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thing that unites the era of 1967 and

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2022 it's that we are both

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seeking the answer to the eternal

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question is there intelligent life

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on planet earth

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i imagine the jury is still out from the

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laughter

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but we're also hoping that somewhere out

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there there may be smart aliens that

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have figured things out a bit better

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than we have and so that is what this

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talk is going to be about because

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everyone here is an astrobiologist an

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extrobiologist some kind of out of this

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solar system or maybe planetary

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biologist

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but you may not be completely familiar

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with the context of what your field was

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like in the 60s particularly the public

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perception thereof

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so so begins our tour and we will begin

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with a journey through

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this is

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for those of you who do not look up

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the moon

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and even as of 1960 we had a pretty good

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idea what the moon was like even in the

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1800s we knew that there was likely no

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atmosphere around this moon we figured

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there probably were not any beings

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living on this on this planet but at the

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same time it was close and it was

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compelling and so

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science fiction authors at the even at

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the dawn of our genre we're writing

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this is the first one that i know that

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is a truly science fiction deserving the

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label of

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aliens on the moon and the interesting

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the way they they justify there being an

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alien presence on the moon was the idea

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that

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there are times when the sun is just

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right on the moon and the uh the

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volatiles evaporate and for a little

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while you have a breathable atmosphere

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so h.g wells wrote about life on the

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moon

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alien life

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edgar rice burroughs who gallivanted

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about our solar system in pros also

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posited that there were people on the

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moon but

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he understood that the moon was a

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lifeless husk on the surface and so he

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assumed

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that there was in fact an empty space

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within the moon and people lived on the

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underside which is interesting are there

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any edgar rice burroughs fans in this

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room

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we have a few

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um edgar rice burroughs also posited

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that there was a hollow earth and people

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living inside that it was called

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pelusidar and those are some of my

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favorite stories so there's a whole i

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think it's four books set on the moon um

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that deal with this internal surface of

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movies

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the science so we have missile to the

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moon which uh

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you know it takes place on an airless

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moon and yet look at all the scattering

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of the light and the shadows but you

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know

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this movie was not really made so much

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for the scientific accuracy but as an

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opportunity to showcase

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the miss america pageant contestants

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but there are little fun little aliens

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on it

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and if you ever watch amazon women on

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the moon which is a wonderful send up in

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the 80s by the people who made kentucky

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fried movie in the 70s they've got a

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wonderful send-up of this movie starring

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steve forrest called amazon women on the

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moon absolutely worth your time

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it's worth coming just for that

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recommendation

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so

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before it became legal to display

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pornography in any theater

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you could only film

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nude films at a nudist colony so why not

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combine this burgeoning sci-fi field of

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with nude colonies and this thus was

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born the nudie cutie features

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very scientifically accurate

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this is what we presume

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aliens would look like on the moon if in

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fact they had nudist colonies

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all right so by 1967

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we had a pretty good idea what the moon

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was like we'd sent several lunar orbiter

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craft right now as we speak in 1967

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there are four

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um although i believe one has already

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crashed into the moon

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we've crashed rangers into the moon

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several of them

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and we've landed a couple of these guys

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these are surveyors

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and you can see surveyor returning a

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self-portrait of its foot

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which is sort of reminiscent of how my

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daughter used to take pictures

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and from this we gathered that the

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surface of the moon was something that

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apollo astronauts could land on and we

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are predicting in 1967 even with the

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catastrophe that took the lives of three

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astronauts that we will be on the moon

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before this decade is out

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so of course

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of course once you have the moon this

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mapped and this understood

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there's not going to be any ridiculous

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movies like in say 2022 to get the

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science all wrong

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i'm assured on that right

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i can be optimistic about the future

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right okay

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all right so having exhausted the moon

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as an abode for life let's go to the

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planets

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so this is mercury first from the sun

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and i imagine there's not a lot of

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people here who's who have seen mercury

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raise your hand if you've actually seen

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mercury

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got a few good for you

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it's uh it's hard to see mercury because

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it's closest to the sun which means it

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never gets much uh elongation from it

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unlike venus which goes up to i think 45

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degrees or so mercury is always within i

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think 12. so you can see it at sunset

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and sunrise if you're looking for it

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because of this because a lot of people

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couldn't see mercury and when they could

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it was often in glare and it was far

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away

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it was sort of wishful thinking when

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they came up with maps for the moon and

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they really didn't know how fast it

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rotated in 1963

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people still believed assumed because

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they kept seeing the same markings on

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mercury that either it had a 24-hour

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rotation which was awfully coincidental

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although mars does too

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or

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it presented one face to the sun which

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makes sense something that close to the

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sun should be tidally locked

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um and as late as

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1964 a certain famous science fiction

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author released his first story called

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the coldest place

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which posited that mercury would in fact

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not only be the hottest place in the

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solar system but also the coldest

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because its backside was always

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presented to the sun which was unique

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amongst all the planets

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and this author posited that there would

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be life based on helium-2 superfluid

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liquid it was a pretty neat story

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raise your hand if you happen to be this

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author who wrote this story

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larry niven ladies and gentlemen round

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of applause

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[Applause]

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i could not have asked for a better prop

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for this talk i did not know larry niven

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would be in the audience right now so so

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thank you for being accommodating

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um

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so mercury is very so at that before

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before we understood mercury's rotation

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when we thought it was a one-faced world

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this is what we thought it was like we

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we thought there might be a twilight

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region

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where the temperature might be

283
00:10:28,630 --> 00:10:27,040
inhabitable and maybe there was

284
00:10:30,550 --> 00:10:28,640
something you could do with that if not

285
00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:30,560
natively maybe it'd be a good place to

286
00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:32,959
live we found out right around the time

287
00:10:38,550 --> 00:10:36,000
larry nevin wrote this story using radar

288
00:10:41,350 --> 00:10:38,560
that the moon actually rotates three

289
00:10:43,350 --> 00:10:41,360
times for every two orbits it does not

290
00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:43,360
present one face of the sun and this

291
00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:45,360
conception of mercury does not exist

292
00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:46,640
cannot exist

293
00:10:52,630 --> 00:10:50,480
and in fact mercury must be lifeless

294
00:10:54,230 --> 00:10:52,640
let's go to the next planet this is like

295
00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:54,240
vacation slides and then i went to the

296
00:10:58,870 --> 00:10:56,320
eiffel tower

297
00:11:00,790 --> 00:10:58,880
so this is venus and this is about as

298
00:11:02,910 --> 00:11:00,800
good as venus looks from terrestrial

299
00:11:04,470 --> 00:11:02,920
telescopes this is as of

300
00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:04,480
1962

301
00:11:08,790 --> 00:11:07,120
the best look we had of what we called

302
00:11:11,829 --> 00:11:08,800
earth's twin and we called it that

303
00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:11,839
because of course similar gravity um

304
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:13,600
it had thick clouds we didn't know what

305
00:11:18,870 --> 00:11:15,279
those clouds were made of

306
00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:18,880
and so there were two competing theories

307
00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:20,959
as to what the surface of venus looked

308
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:21,760
like

309
00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:23,200
one was that

310
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:25,440
venus was a hot

311
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:27,200
desolate desert

312
00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:29,120
a bit like el centro where i grew up in

313
00:11:32,870 --> 00:11:31,040
southern california

314
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:32,880
perhaps more culture

315
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:36,560
and on the right uh a steaming ocean

316
00:11:40,389 --> 00:11:38,480
now steaming oceans are a bit more

317
00:11:42,150 --> 00:11:40,399
appealing to science fiction authors and

318
00:11:44,389 --> 00:11:42,160
so that's the one that tended to get

319
00:11:46,470 --> 00:11:44,399
used the most

320
00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:46,480
so you've probably read ray bradbury's

321
00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:47,920
all summer in a day i think that was

322
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:50,160
mandatory reading when we were kids

323
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:51,120
um

324
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:52,880
and edgar rice burroughs of course made

325
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:54,480
it amtor

326
00:12:00,150 --> 00:11:57,839
um also set on an oceanic venus

327
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:00,160
so venus was a fairly popular setting

328
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:03,040
for a while until

329
00:12:08,629 --> 00:12:05,440
mariner 2 the first interplanetary probe

330
00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:08,639
went in 1962 and the end of 1962

331
00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:10,720
returned data

332
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:13,120
and found that venus seared at a good

333
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:15,279
800 degrees and it was impossible that

334
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:17,360
there could be any liquid water on the

335
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:20,160
planet now this didn't stop carl sagan

336
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:21,600
from positing that there are ways to

337
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:23,519
terraform the the planet

338
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:24,720
and this was right about the time that

339
00:12:29,509 --> 00:12:26,800
carl sagan was starting to make his

340
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:29,519
transition from astrophysicist to

341
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:32,560
science popularizer

342
00:12:37,269 --> 00:12:35,120
but nevertheless the venus that we knew

343
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:37,279
was gone

344
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:39,120
or was it

345
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:40,959
interestingly enough the idea of an

346
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:43,600
oceanic inhabitable venus was so

347
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:45,600
compelling that many big authors

348
00:12:49,829 --> 00:12:47,519
continued to write about it as if it

349
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:49,839
existed so robert silverberg said some

350
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:52,399
stories there in the blue fire series

351
00:12:56,069 --> 00:12:54,240
roger zelazny has this one it's sort of

352
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:56,079
a hemingway-esque story but it takes

353
00:13:00,790 --> 00:12:57,360
place on venus

354
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:00,800
it's big fish hunting on venus

355
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:02,959
this is 1966 people should know better

356
00:13:06,949 --> 00:13:05,760
but zolasney was a big author and

357
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:06,959
made more money than me so what do i

358
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:08,240
know um

359
00:13:13,509 --> 00:13:11,040
i will say the first person to put a

360
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:13,519
story in a realistic marine or two-based

361
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:16,639
venus was again larry niven with homed

362
00:13:20,069 --> 00:13:18,480
in hell which actually appeared in

363
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:20,079
fantasy and science fiction i think the

364
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:22,800
same year maybe the year before

365
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:24,079
and i always say

366
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:25,040
writing

367
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:30,959
ignoring science but what do i know

368
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:32,320
next planet

369
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:34,639
this is mars

370
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:36,959
looking about as good as it ever does

371
00:13:41,829 --> 00:13:39,600
from terrestrial telescopes

372
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:41,839
it's an enigmatic compelling planet

373
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:44,079
isn't it it's kind of green

374
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:46,880
it changes with the seasons it's very

375
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:49,040
earth-like in terms of its rotation and

376
00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:50,639
its axial tilt

377
00:13:53,430 --> 00:13:51,440
so

378
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:53,440
clearly mars if we're going to look for

379
00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:55,680
life anywhere it's going to be mars and

380
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:58,000
i have to ask how many folks here are

381
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:01,519
mars astro exobiologists

382
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:04,079
we have a few

383
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:05,680
after the show i want to know what got

384
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:07,360
you into looking for life on mars

385
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:08,800
because i can tell you what got the

386
00:14:14,150 --> 00:14:10,800
first generation

387
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,160
was this guy chaparrali an italian

388
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:16,399
astronomer who made the first real maps

389
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:19,120
of mars and you'll notice he's got those

390
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:21,360
really interesting straight lines on

391
00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:24,880
there which he called in italian canali

392
00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:28,160
which means channels

393
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:31,040
but percival lowell who we know from his

394
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:33,040
search for planet x which eventually

395
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:34,399
became pluto

396
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:37,360
translated it as canals and the

397
00:14:43,269 --> 00:14:40,560
difference between channel and canal is

398
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:43,279
natural versus artificial

399
00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:51,110
there must be intelligent life on mars

400
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:53,199
mars is further from the sun than venus

401
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:54,959
venus earth earth is further from the

402
00:14:59,189 --> 00:14:57,279
sun than venus clearly we are seeing the

403
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:59,199
evolution of the solar system in the

404
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:01,440
distance of the planets from the stars

405
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:03,680
so mercury is the youngest planet it

406
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:05,760
hasn't cooled down yet venus is still a

407
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:07,760
primeval swamp

408
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:10,720
the dinosaurs lived in earth is earth

409
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:13,519
and mars is an ancient planet with an

410
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:16,079
old advanced civilization on it the kind

411
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:18,560
that might send aliens to earth to

412
00:15:25,430 --> 00:15:22,000
declare war only to be felled by a bug

413
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:25,440
presumably covid 18. um

414
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:27,199
i guess that would be coveted negative

415
00:15:32,230 --> 00:15:29,680
50 or something um so we have a lot of

416
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:32,240
stories set on mars some of them are

417
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:34,240
rather romantic so for instance we have

418
00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:36,800
lee brackett who uh is a very famous

419
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:38,079
screenwriter everyone know who lee

420
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,639
brackett is if you don't look her up

421
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:42,639
because she's super important not just

422
00:15:45,509 --> 00:15:44,160
in the 40s but beyond she actually wrote

423
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:45,519
the first draft of the script to the

424
00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:47,440
empire strikes back

425
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:48,800
she also wrote the treasure of sierra

426
00:15:55,110 --> 00:15:52,079
madre which i believe won an oscar

427
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:55,120
but in her seekings of mars her heroes

428
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:56,720
are transported back in time a few

429
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:58,160
million years to when mars was an

430
00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:00,240
inhabitable wet planet

431
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,040
mars child by cyril judd that's actually

432
00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:05,040
judith merrill and cyril kornbluth who

433
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,079
were big authors in the early 50s

434
00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:10,320
this is a story about colonists on a

435
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:12,240
more earth-like mars

436
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:13,040
or

437
00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:19,199
about

438
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:20,000
the

439
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:28,320
on an unusual planet look like

440
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:30,320
the mars they write about is not the

441
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:33,120
mars that we know today but it is an

442
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:35,040
interesting scientifically based world

443
00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:36,240
and i think it's a story that's still

444
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:38,000
worth reading it's called mars child

445
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:40,720
there but uh lisa what was it called in

446
00:16:46,079 --> 00:16:52,790
sin in space

447
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:54,790
woman taking her sweater off guy very

448
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,710
um edgar rice burroughs of course made

449
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:03,040
mars very popular and i believe in the

450
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:05,280
2010s or so you're going to have a set

451
00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:07,280
of movies based on john carter of mars

452
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:09,839
or has he called it barsoom so mars

453
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:12,880
figures huge in science fiction all the

454
00:17:17,029 --> 00:17:15,280
way up through the 50s and even into the

455
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:17,039
60s

456
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:18,799
but of course

457
00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:22,079
illusions are made to be broken and in

458
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:26,079
1964 mariner 4 was the first probe to

459
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:29,039
successfully pass by mars uh the soviet

460
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:31,039
union sent some that didn't make it or

461
00:17:34,630 --> 00:17:32,480
it didn't have their cameras on anyway

462
00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:34,640
which doesn't do any good

463
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:37,360
mariner 4 determined in its 22 pictures

464
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:38,160
that

465
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:39,919
mars looked like the surface of the moon

466
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:41,760
and everyone came to the conclusion that

467
00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:44,960
mars was an airless worthless hulk

468
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:48,160
which is interesting because

469
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:50,080
yes it's true that mars had less than

470
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:52,240
one percent of earth's atmospheric

471
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:53,760
density but you know what earth has

472
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:55,840
about one percent the density of venus's

473
00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:56,960
atmosphere and if there were any

474
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:58,240
venusians they would be looking at earth

475
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:00,960
going god what a terrible airless vacuum

476
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:04,080
place so it wasn't until after the 60s

477
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:05,600
that we started to say ah well maybe

478
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:08,880
mars isn't so bad but this is in 1967

479
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:11,200
pretty much the nader of interest in

480
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:12,640
mart mars

481
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:14,160
even though it's interesting i read an

482
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:15,679
article just a couple of years ago from

483
00:18:19,110 --> 00:18:17,280
my perspective

484
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,120
that talked about how they expected mars

485
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:21,360
to be heavily cratered um so the fact

486
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:23,280
that it has craters and not so much

487
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:25,679
weathering is not that surprising but in

488
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:28,080
1964 it seemed like or 65 it seemed like

489
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:29,679
everyone breathed a sigh of relief thank

490
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:32,160
god there isn't anything on mars

491
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:33,600
maybe they knew tom cruise was going to

492
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:35,760
star in a movie

493
00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:41,510
is there life on jupiter could there be

494
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:43,200
did people think that there was life on

495
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:45,760
jupiter so jupiter is a hostile

496
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:47,200
environment and we did know a bit about

497
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:48,640
it we certainly knew its density we knew

498
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:50,320
its temperature

499
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:51,200
um

500
00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:53,120
but there was the possibility that

501
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:55,280
beneath the cloud tops it could be warm

502
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:57,120
enough or

503
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:59,200
or congenial enough to support some kind

504
00:19:06,390 --> 00:19:01,679
of alien life

505
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:08,630
why is everyone laughing

506
00:19:11,909 --> 00:19:10,000
edgar riceboroughs wrote this is

507
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:11,919
actually late edgar riceborough stories

508
00:19:14,549 --> 00:19:13,200
which means it's not one of his better

509
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:14,559
ones um

510
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:18,000
so he made jupiter inhabitable by having

511
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:20,799
hot volcanoes keep everything warm like

512
00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:22,400
indonesia i guess

513
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:25,600
and uh and the speed of jupiter's

514
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:28,559
rotation mitigating the gravity with

515
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:31,200
centrifugal force

516
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:32,320
you have to give them credit for

517
00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:34,320
originality

518
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:37,200
um in a more realistic vein we have paul

519
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:38,960
anderson someone i'm sure larry nevin

520
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:41,520
knew very well um paul anderson was a

521
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:43,280
science fiction author whose work was

522
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:45,520
far more rooted in science very hard

523
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:48,080
science and he wrote a story under the

524
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:50,000
name of winston sanders a couple of

525
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:52,320
years ago from my perspective called

526
00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:54,640
three worlds to conquer um and it

527
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:57,120
posited that there was life on jupiter

528
00:20:02,149 --> 00:19:59,600
on some sort of cold rocky core under

529
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:02,159
the thick atmosphere um

530
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:04,000
the only problem with this book is it's

531
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:07,600
not very good but the but the aliens are

532
00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:09,520
interesting all right

533
00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:11,840
saturn pretty planet but there's not

534
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:13,520
much you can do with saturn that you

535
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:15,679
can't do with jupiter and beca and

536
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:17,679
because saturn is clearly more hostile

537
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:19,520
than jupiter not a lot of people wrote

538
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:21,200
stories about saturn

539
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:23,600
even less hospitable and no i will not

540
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:29,590
the seventh planet

541
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:31,679
you can you can pronounce it yourself

542
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:32,960
grow up

543
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:34,880
um

544
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:36,320
you would think that this planet would

545
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:38,080
not be the subject of science fiction

546
00:20:40,950 --> 00:20:39,120
and yet

547
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:40,960
a few years ago there was this one i

548
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:42,400
believe it was translated from the

549
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,520
danish

550
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:45,039
journey to the seventh planet and they

551
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:46,240
go to the planet and they find a

552
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,880
completely earth-like environment

553
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:50,480
turns out it's actually an artificial

554
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:52,080
creation and that little monster in the

555
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:54,000
bottom left is sending out mine waves to

556
00:20:59,510 --> 00:20:56,320
ensnare people with with beautiful women

557
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,520
to uh to trap the uh the stalwart

558
00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:01,520
spacemen it's actually not a bad movie

559
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:03,280
but it is the only one i know that takes

560
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:05,840
place on uranus

561
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:07,200
and then finally we get to the edge of

562
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:09,840
the solar system neptune and pluto

563
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:11,679
neptune on the left pluto on the right

564
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:13,919
and obviously those are so far out we do

565
00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:16,880
not expect to see any kind of life there

566
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:20,320
so as of 1967 we've exhausted the solar

567
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:23,039
system as an abode for life

568
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:24,480
is there any other place in the solar

569
00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:32,549
let's not always see the same hands

570
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:34,470
the moons

571
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:35,760
so

572
00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:37,919
at the time we knew that jupiter had a

573
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:40,159
bunch of big moons and so we have doc

574
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:41,200
smith

575
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:42,960
one of the deans of science fiction

576
00:21:48,090 --> 00:21:46,240
writing a pulpy story about aliens from

577
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:48,100
ganymede

578
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:49,200
[Music]

579
00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:51,200
and then we have titan titan we knew had

580
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:52,880
an atmosphere and a significant

581
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,400
atmosphere

582
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:56,400
and alan norse wrote an interesting

583
00:22:01,510 --> 00:21:59,280
story set under the clouds of titan

584
00:22:03,029 --> 00:22:01,520
the life was incidental to the story it

585
00:22:05,350 --> 00:22:03,039
was mostly a hard science fiction about

586
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:05,360
colonization and mining but the aliens

587
00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:06,960
were there

588
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:10,000
and titan over the next few decades is

589
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:11,280
going to figure more and more

590
00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:13,600
prominently in science fiction because

591
00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:15,919
it is such a fascinating world and we'll

592
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:17,039
get back to that are there any people

593
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:19,360
who are studying life possibility

594
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:21,200
she got very excited

595
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:23,039
we're going to exchange cards because

596
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:24,720
titan is amazing

597
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:28,320
all right nevertheless

598
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:30,880
speculation these these these meager

599
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:32,400
speculations aside it certainly looks

600
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:34,880
like the solar system is not going to be

601
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:36,799
a great place to find life which is you

602
00:22:41,430 --> 00:22:39,600
know a bummer

603
00:22:45,270 --> 00:22:41,440
so the question is are the planets

604
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:45,280
around other solar systems and in 1967

605
00:22:51,029 --> 00:22:47,600
this was still something of an open

606
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:51,039
question we had not settled on an origin

607
00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:52,799
of the solar system theory i know that

608
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:55,039
sounds crazy it was only 55 years ago

609
00:22:59,590 --> 00:22:57,280
heck it was only 55 years ago that that

610
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:59,600
plate tectonics became an established

611
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:02,159
theory it was only this year the

612
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:05,919
tennessee repealed its scopes monkey law

613
00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:07,520
restriction on teaching evolution in

614
00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:10,400
public schools so just 55 years whenever

615
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,480
you're feeling like oh my gosh 2022 is

616
00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:14,720
the worst year ever it has never been as

617
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:17,360
bad as today let me tell you folks

618
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:20,720
55 years ago was worse in every single

619
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:21,600
way

620
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:26,470
all right so the question is were there

621
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:27,840
other solar systems because it really

622
00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:30,480
relies on two things is our solar system

623
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:32,320
a unique phenomenon

624
00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:34,320
or is it one of many

625
00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:36,159
and at the time one of the competing

626
00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:37,440
theories was

627
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:39,039
earth is rare

628
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:41,039
and what happened was a star passed

629
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:43,440
another star and ripped some of the

630
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:46,000
matter from it and that congealed into a

631
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:47,600
disk that turned into planets and if

632
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:49,200
that's the case stellar collisions are

633
00:23:53,269 --> 00:23:50,960
very rare and there would be very few

634
00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:53,279
planets in the solar system but even as

635
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,039
early as the 1700s laplace theorized

636
00:24:01,350 --> 00:23:59,760
that no every star has a disc

637
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:01,360
and it collapses into planets and the

638
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:02,880
only reason laplace didn't really take

639
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:04,400
off is because they hadn't solved some

640
00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:06,480
momentum issues which they won't solve

641
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:08,799
for another couple of decades

642
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:10,640
obviously in 2022

643
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:13,760
protoplanetary disks are accepted fact

644
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:16,720
so the question is in 1967 did we have

645
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:18,400
evidence of any other planets around

646
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:20,960
other stars

647
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:22,720
yes

648
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:25,200
this is peter vandecamp

649
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:28,720
and he had by 1967 discovered three

650
00:24:33,590 --> 00:24:29,840
planets

651
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:33,600
around three nearby stars the land 21185

652
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:36,320
61 cygni and bird star those just trip

653
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:38,240
off the tongue

654
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:40,640
the land 21185 is a household name today

655
00:24:44,789 --> 00:24:42,960
because of peter vanderkamp

656
00:24:46,789 --> 00:24:44,799
um and the way he discovered these

657
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:46,799
planets was the science of astrometry

658
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:48,400
which is you measure the star and see

659
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:50,159
the wiggle this isn't the radial

660
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:52,640
velocity method this is actual watching

661
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:56,320
the star move around in your telescope

662
00:25:00,710 --> 00:24:58,640
and so we knew in the 60s there were

663
00:25:02,230 --> 00:25:00,720
another stars so there was only one

664
00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:02,240
problem with peter van der kamp's

665
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:03,919
discoveries and that was they were all

666
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:05,120
wrong

667
00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:09,200
this telescope not with so there were no

668
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:11,039
planets these planets do not exist but

669
00:25:16,310 --> 00:25:13,919
we didn't know that in 1967 and we took

670
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:16,320
that as this is license to let our

671
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:19,200
imaginations run wild

672
00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:21,039
now here's the cool thing you don't have

673
00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:23,600
to just look for stars

674
00:25:29,269 --> 00:25:26,840
look at stars for planets invisible

675
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:29,279
light now that we know that there are

676
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:31,679
other solar systems we can start to make

677
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:33,120
predictions about the probability of

678
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:34,880
life and every everybody's seen this

679
00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:36,400
equate

680
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:38,000
meaningless equation in the history of

681
00:25:41,669 --> 00:25:39,760
humanity because we've got seven

682
00:25:43,669 --> 00:25:41,679
variables only three of which we can

683
00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:43,679
really nail down so the other four are

684
00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:46,400
whatever you want them to be um

685
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:49,200
you can probably with tessa and kepler

686
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:51,840
and so and now that jim webb is up we

687
00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:55,440
can maybe start to narrow down on f of p

688
00:25:59,190 --> 00:25:56,640
but anyway

689
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:59,200
so frank drake decided you know what we

690
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:01,360
don't need just visible light

691
00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:04,159
let's listen to the stars with this very

692
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:07,600
new technology radio astronomy

693
00:26:11,029 --> 00:26:09,200
so if any of you have read the third

694
00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:11,039
book in the oz series you know who osma

695
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:13,679
is the queen of oz

696
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:15,520
one of the first transgender heroes

697
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:17,200
actually because she was a he in the

698
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:18,480
second book

699
00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:19,600
um

700
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:21,200
and what he did was he set up a

701
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:22,799
telescope in west virginia he didn't set

702
00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:24,480
it up he contracted a telescope in west

703
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:26,880
virginia and listened for two months to

704
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:28,080
tau seti

705
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:31,039
and epsilon iridony

706
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:32,400
and his thinking was if they are

707
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:34,799
broadcasting anything we will hear it

708
00:26:38,230 --> 00:26:36,400
well two months went by he didn't hear

709
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:38,240
anything but he said well you know what

710
00:26:42,149 --> 00:26:40,000
really this is going to take a good 30

711
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:42,159
years before we can make any conclusions

712
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:45,200
but this was the first attempt to listen

713
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:50,310
of course we don't have to stay on our

714
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:52,640
planet we can leave and in the late 60s

715
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:54,400
we were talking about using the saturn v

716
00:26:59,669 --> 00:26:57,520
moon rocket to send really giant probes

717
00:27:01,750 --> 00:26:59,679
to mars and that was the original

718
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:01,760
voyager this eventually will get

719
00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:04,159
cancelled and replaced by viking

720
00:27:08,950 --> 00:27:06,159
so it will have to wait until 1976

721
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:08,960
before we get some surveyor class on the

722
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:11,200
ground science from mars

723
00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:12,720
but we were ambitious we were planning

724
00:27:15,909 --> 00:27:14,000
on going there

725
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:15,919
all right so this is the state of

726
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:19,679
knowledge as of 1967. this is what we

727
00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:20,960
knew

728
00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:24,399
let's talk about what we dreamed

729
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:28,080
oh sorry i got ahead of myself

730
00:27:33,909 --> 00:27:30,880
this is us going we went

731
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:33,919
we had plans to go out to the planets

732
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:35,840
but what if the aliens had already come

733
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:40,870
for instance there's this meteorite that

734
00:27:46,310 --> 00:27:42,960
fell that we found in the 1800s called

735
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:46,320
the orguel meteorite and we believed

736
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:48,720
that there was evidence of life

737
00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:50,880
on this meteorite you see the thing on

738
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:52,799
the right that actually made big

739
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:55,760
headlines about 30 years from the 1960s

740
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:59,039
we were certain that this was the proof

741
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:01,440
that there was life outside of earth so

742
00:28:05,269 --> 00:28:03,919
common that even asteroids could have

743
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:05,279
pieces of it

744
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:07,600
turned out this was a fraud

745
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:09,440
like pilt down man

746
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:10,960
but we didn't know that at the time and

747
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:12,240
again this is one of those things where

748
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:14,080
we get put on the right course even for

749
00:28:18,789 --> 00:28:17,039
the wrong reasons all right well what if

750
00:28:20,909 --> 00:28:18,799
the aliens visiting us are a bit more

751
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:20,919
flashy about it

752
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:23,600
1947 all of a sudden

753
00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:27,120
ufos are everywhere

754
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:29,840
now i'm not saying that ufos don't exist

755
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:36,870
reports of demonic visitation

756
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:38,080
plummeted

757
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:39,520
tremendously

758
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:41,440
right around the time that reports of

759
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:44,320
ufo visitation and abduction became

760
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:46,080
popular

761
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:47,520
coincidence

762
00:28:51,669 --> 00:28:49,120
you be the judge

763
00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:51,679
ufos became very popular in the late 40s

764
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:53,360
probably because that was around the

765
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:55,440
time that the air force was lofting

766
00:28:59,350 --> 00:28:57,520
things so high up that you could see

767
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:59,360
them at night time

768
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:01,039
but lit up very brightly because they

769
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:02,960
were still catching the sunlight so what

770
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:06,240
could these things be um

771
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:08,159
the air force nasa so forth they get

772
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:10,399
reports every day when someone looks at

773
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:12,000
venus and goes oh my god that must be a

774
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:13,600
ufo anytime you see something bright in

775
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:15,679
the sky people are going to assume it

776
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:17,520
shouldn't be there

777
00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:18,880
what's going to happen when elon musk

778
00:29:22,630 --> 00:29:20,640
sends up all those starling satellites

779
00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:22,640
are we just going to get 10 billion

780
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:24,640
calls

781
00:29:32,389 --> 00:29:28,080
we okay am i dying no you're not uh

782
00:29:32,399 --> 00:29:35,350
so in the

783
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:37,669
so don't don't kiss this thing so can

784
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:39,200
you still hear me

785
00:29:44,470 --> 00:29:41,919
all right i just have to be closer

786
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:44,480
in the 50s flying saucers were

787
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:46,720
legitimate science fiction by the late

788
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:49,760
50s they no longer were they had moved

789
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:52,240
over into crack pottery

790
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:54,720
by 1961 we have betty and barney smith

791
00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:56,640
talking about in lurid detail about

792
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:59,039
their abduction by ufos and they made a

793
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:00,799
living on that for the next many decades

794
00:30:06,149 --> 00:30:04,000
of their lives um but even by 1966 we've

795
00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:06,159
got walter cronkite talking about how

796
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:09,120
there are no unidentified objects in

797
00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:11,279
space

798
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:13,120
we knew it was was nothing and yet you

799
00:30:17,110 --> 00:30:15,360
know even 55 years from now i'm i assume

800
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:17,120
people will still be assuming that they

801
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:18,960
uh they want to believe

802
00:30:23,029 --> 00:30:22,000
so flying saucers probably not real

803
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:23,039
sorry

804
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:24,720
okay so now we go back to what i was

805
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:26,159
gonna say

806
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:28,080
let's talk about what we dreamed we

807
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:29,600
personally thought aliens were gonna be

808
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,760
like

809
00:30:35,909 --> 00:30:33,440
well we had blobs

810
00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:35,919
blobs are easy they're they're big and

811
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:38,559
symmetrical and scary this is the movie

812
00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:40,880
the blob um but they were also featured

813
00:30:46,149 --> 00:30:43,120
in science fiction um

814
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:48,149
m schwiller keller um carol m schwiller

815
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:50,880
wrote a lovely story about from the

816
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:53,840
perspective of the blob um so blobs make

817
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:56,320
sense we've got puppet masters and this

818
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:58,480
is a concept that will resurface time

819
00:31:01,750 --> 00:31:00,000
and time again the aliens that show up

820
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:01,760
and ride our backs and make us do their

821
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:08,230
this is one of my favorites so blobs and

822
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:11,039
puppet masters are the things of schlock

823
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:12,720
b movies

824
00:31:17,669 --> 00:31:14,880
but inside the pages of magazine like

825
00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:17,679
astounding you had more nuanced more

826
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:19,679
interesting suppositions have any of you

827
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:22,000
read this story omnilingual

828
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:24,080
famous story um

829
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:25,679
it's important for a lot of reasons one

830
00:31:29,149 --> 00:31:27,360
it's one of the very first stories to

831
00:31:32,230 --> 00:31:29,159
star a woman scientist in a

832
00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:32,240
non-sexualized role she's just a woman

833
00:31:36,549 --> 00:31:34,480
doing her job

834
00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:36,559
and this story is really neat if you get

835
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:38,240
a chance to read it it's actually you

836
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:40,320
can find it on gutenberg for free

837
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:43,120
um it is about a martian civilization

838
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:44,880
there's mars again

839
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:46,880
we do not understand their language we

840
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:48,240
can't understand their culture they've

841
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:50,480
been dead for tens of thousands of years

842
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:53,760
and yet there is a rosetta stone

843
00:31:59,509 --> 00:31:57,200
that allows us to crack the martian code

844
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:59,519
do you want me to spoil it for you

845
00:32:02,389 --> 00:32:00,480
okay

846
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:02,399
i won't but if you read it it's really

847
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:04,240
interesting i strongly recommend this it

848
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,080
is a hard science fiction story and well

849
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:08,399
worth your time

850
00:32:15,509 --> 00:32:11,519
it says it right there hb piper

851
00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:17,909
we have paul anderson again this is an

852
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:20,720
alien from uh a planet with a red sun

853
00:32:24,470 --> 00:32:22,720
very dim and so their eyes are very big

854
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:24,480
to catch the light and their ears big

855
00:32:29,269 --> 00:32:26,240
because you depend more on hearing when

856
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:29,279
you can't see so well

857
00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:31,039
this is a really interesting story this

858
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:35,760
is unhuman sacrifice by catherine mclean

859
00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:38,960
this came out in 1958 also in analog and

860
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:41,120
this has an extra

861
00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:42,960
terrestrial team going to a planet and

862
00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:44,960
finding these aliens with the strange

863
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:47,279
life cycle they live as bipedal

864
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:48,720
creatures most

865
00:32:51,750 --> 00:32:50,159
and then there just comes a point in

866
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:51,760
their life when they take the old

867
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:54,559
members of this tribe and hang them by

868
00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:56,799
their feet from trees

869
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:58,799
leaving them somewhat hobbled for the

870
00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:00,240
rest of their life

871
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:02,480
what terrible cruel people why would

872
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:03,919
they do this

873
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:05,760
and the answer is a very interesting

874
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:08,080
biological puzzle and i strongly

875
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:10,000
recommend that all of you get a chance

876
00:33:13,830 --> 00:33:12,080
to read unhuman sacrifice by katherine

877
00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:13,840
mclean and if you're wondering where you

878
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:15,440
can read that you can find it in the

879
00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:17,519
first volume of rediscovery science

880
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:19,360
fiction by women

881
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:22,000
put out by journey press

882
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:23,440
this is not a plug for that this is just

883
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:25,360
a particularly interesting story with

884
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:26,960
well thought out biology i think you'll

885
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:31,909
have any of you read this story critical

886
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:33,679
point by hal clement

887
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:35,279
how clement was another one of those

888
00:33:39,509 --> 00:33:37,679
extremely hard science fiction authors

889
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:39,519
and what i love about this story this is

890
00:33:45,190 --> 00:33:42,240
also worth your time it posits a planet

891
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:45,200
where you've got an atmospheric density

892
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:46,799
it's three times the size of the earth

893
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:48,640
so the atmospheric density is hundreds

894
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:50,559
that of earth and we're near the

895
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:53,039
critical point of water so as the sun

896
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:55,440
sets the water coalesces from the

897
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:58,000
atmosphere and the oceans rise by

898
00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:00,159
several meters every night and it's all

899
00:34:03,269 --> 00:34:01,840
about these aliens that live essentially

900
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:03,279
like at the bottom of the ocean except

901
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:05,679
the ocean is their atmosphere really

902
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:07,519
interesting story

903
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:09,359
so even in the 50s we were writing

904
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:10,240
really

905
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:12,320
nuanced compelling scientifically

906
00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:14,480
motivated stories that i suspect to some

907
00:34:23,109 --> 00:34:20,550
let's go to television

908
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:23,119
not quite as sophisticated does anyone

909
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:24,879
know what this is

910
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:28,240
this is doctor who the second serial the

911
00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:30,960
person these are falls

912
00:34:36,389 --> 00:34:34,240
very alien looking creatures these are

913
00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:36,399
here's some more aliens that's the

914
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:38,560
doctor and his granddaughter they're

915
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:41,599
aliens can't you tell

916
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:43,599
of course we do have the daleks which we

917
00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:45,200
actually don't know what they look like

918
00:34:48,550 --> 00:34:47,200
in 1964 they could be people in there in

919
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:48,560
fact they're supposed to be mutated

920
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,030
in fact

921
00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:56,389
when you've got humans doing the acting

922
00:35:01,349 --> 00:34:58,000
why not have two in a box you're going

923
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:01,359
to find this very often in 60 science

924
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:05,599
fiction your aliens look like people

925
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:08,480
or they're people in a suit

926
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,720
for instance the first monster we see in

927
00:35:14,829 --> 00:35:12,480
star trek this is the man trap the first

928
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:14,839
aired episode this was a woman in a

929
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:17,440
suit here's a man in a lizard suit this

930
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:19,440
is the gorn from the episode arena also

931
00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:21,520
first season of star trek

932
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:24,400
this idea this theme of the man in a

933
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:26,320
suit is so prevalent there's even an

934
00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:27,920
outer limits episode which is an

935
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:29,200
anthology show that happened around the

936
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:30,640
same time as twilight zone starring

937
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:33,520
martin landau as a man in a suit who

938
00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:44,230
and that's if we're lucky usually what

939
00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:46,880
we get these are all aliens aliens from

940
00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:50,480
star trek these are all non-humans

941
00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:52,640
and yet they look just like you and me

942
00:35:56,790 --> 00:35:55,119
maybe with little makeup on

943
00:35:58,230 --> 00:35:56,800
why is that

944
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,240
and this is something we don't just see

945
00:36:02,470 --> 00:36:00,000
in television you actually see this all

946
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:02,480
the time in the science fiction in print

947
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:05,760
of the day well there's two reasons

948
00:36:09,589 --> 00:36:06,640
one

949
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:09,599
it's cheaper to put a person in makeup

950
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:12,000
than it is to make a truly alien thing

951
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:13,520
and also there's a matter of writing

952
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:16,079
what you know right that's why we get

953
00:36:19,349 --> 00:36:17,520
people on other planets that's why we

954
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:19,359
get cat people on other planets that's

955
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:21,520
why we get fish on other planets birds

956
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:24,240
on other planets the idea that life will

957
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:25,920
evolve on other worlds in the same order

958
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:28,320
they did here from fish to amphibians to

959
00:36:33,670 --> 00:36:32,079
reptiles to birds to humans

960
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:33,680
there's also something a little more

961
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:37,280
sinister going on here there's a bit of

962
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:39,440
translated racism

963
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,240
it's a sort of terran chauvinism human

964
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:44,560
chauvinism this idea that

965
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:45,839
humanity

966
00:36:52,150 --> 00:36:47,839
is not only

967
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:52,160
the best form it's an inevitable form

968
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:54,560
because it's the best and so we can go

969
00:36:59,829 --> 00:36:56,480
out to other planets and we will find

970
00:37:01,510 --> 00:36:59,839
people who look exactly like us

971
00:37:03,589 --> 00:37:01,520
sound familiar there's there's a there's

972
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:03,599
an element of colonialism in there and

973
00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:06,240
certainly chauvinism um and no more was

974
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,240
this espou espouse that in the pages of

975
00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:10,800
astounding by john campbell um

976
00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:12,240
a lot of great science fiction in his

977
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:14,079
magazines a lot of great discoveries in

978
00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:15,520
his magazines

979
00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:18,560
a lot of regressive attitudes in his

980
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:19,760
magazine

981
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:21,119
all right

982
00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:22,800
now this is star trek i'm making fun of

983
00:37:27,349 --> 00:37:24,800
it but the fact is star trek does give

984
00:37:29,109 --> 00:37:27,359
us some interesting aliens

985
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:29,119
for instance we have

986
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:30,640
in the first season episode the devil of

987
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:33,280
the devil in the dark this is the horta

988
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:36,160
a silicon based life form now even at

989
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:38,400
the time we were aware that

990
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:41,280
silicon-based life was unlikely um

991
00:37:44,470 --> 00:37:42,800
certainly compared to carbon-based life

992
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:44,480
and if it existed it would probably need

993
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:47,440
extremely high temperatures

994
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:50,240
to to do its thing and what solvent

995
00:37:53,990 --> 00:37:52,400
exists at those high temperatures what's

996
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:54,000
really exciting especially i imagine for

997
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:55,680
you the titan person is now we're

998
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:57,440
discovering that maybe silicon-based

999
00:38:01,349 --> 00:37:58,720
life

1000
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:01,359
thrives at very cold temperatures in

1001
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:04,160
nitrogen or methane-based solvents but

1002
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:06,079
at the time we didn't know that

1003
00:38:09,109 --> 00:38:07,599
still the idea that we were coming up

1004
00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:09,119
with a truly alien life based on

1005
00:38:13,589 --> 00:38:11,280
completely different biochemistry was

1006
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:13,599
exciting and new and straight science

1007
00:38:18,310 --> 00:38:16,079
fiction which was admirable for a tv

1008
00:38:20,710 --> 00:38:18,320
show in fact if there's anything star

1009
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:20,720
trek did was it brought science fiction

1010
00:38:24,790 --> 00:38:22,480
to the masses because before then there

1011
00:38:26,950 --> 00:38:24,800
were a few thousand hardcore science

1012
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:26,960
fiction fans who wore propeller head

1013
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,800
beanies

1014
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:30,480
and got to conventions that numbered

1015
00:38:34,710 --> 00:38:32,960
around a thousand once you have star

1016
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:34,720
trek you start getting conventions in

1017
00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:36,960
the tens of thousands of attendance and

1018
00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:38,880
the millions of people watching and in

1019
00:38:42,230 --> 00:38:40,480
some ways more important you get women

1020
00:38:44,790 --> 00:38:42,240
really participating in science fiction

1021
00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:44,800
in a big way

1022
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:50,870
another thing we see a lot in star trek

1023
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:53,280
is the god-like aliens whether it's

1024
00:38:58,790 --> 00:38:55,839
charlie x's father on the left or

1025
00:39:01,990 --> 00:38:58,800
trelane's parents in the middle or

1026
00:39:04,470 --> 00:39:02,000
the uh the metron on the right these are

1027
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:04,480
aliens that are so far beyond us that

1028
00:39:08,710 --> 00:39:06,880
they have no corporeal form unless they

1029
00:39:11,430 --> 00:39:08,720
want one

1030
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:11,440
and this to my mind is actually the most

1031
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:14,160
plausible kind of alien we will discover

1032
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:16,960
because let's face it if you take the

1033
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:19,920
entire history of humanity

1034
00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:21,680
the entire history all the way to when

1035
00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:24,079
we were definably human say a hundred

1036
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:25,680
thousand years say a million years and

1037
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:27,119
compare it to the age of the earth we

1038
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:29,280
are talking about something the width of

1039
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:31,680
a dime on top of the empire state

1040
00:39:35,670 --> 00:39:33,359
building

1041
00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:35,680
any aliens we find are going to be far

1042
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:37,680
less advanced than us or far more

1043
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:45,109
now we see a lot of aliens in star trek

1044
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:46,960
we see so many aliens in star trek the

1045
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:48,400
next season they're going to find it

1046
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:50,800
necessary to actually designate someone

1047
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:53,440
their astrobiologist and so that name

1048
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:55,839
will come into the popular lexicon it

1049
00:40:00,790 --> 00:39:58,560
existed in 1952 the soviets had a book

1050
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:00,800
called astrobiology but in the 60s

1051
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:03,440
generally it was called exobiology

1052
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:05,599
i think this character played by diana

1053
00:40:10,069 --> 00:40:08,240
moldoward named anne mulhall was what

1054
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:10,079
made astrobiology something everybody

1055
00:40:14,309 --> 00:40:11,839
knew all right

1056
00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:14,319
so this is what we dreamed as of the 60s

1057
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:16,480
and what we knew as of the 60s this was

1058
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:19,040
55 years ago

1059
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:25,359
had zero evidence

1060
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:27,359
of aliens or even any kind of life

1061
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:29,280
outside the earth clearly 55 years from

1062
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:31,200
now there's going to be some kind of

1063
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:32,960
evidence in 2022 everybody's gonna have

1064
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:35,680
tons of evidence of life on other

1065
00:40:40,470 --> 00:40:38,640
planets

1066
00:40:42,550 --> 00:40:40,480
but we don't

1067
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:42,560
we have none

1068
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:44,160
we have better models

1069
00:40:48,550 --> 00:40:46,079
we have better instruments we have

1070
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:48,560
better computers we have more people in

1071
00:40:54,710 --> 00:40:51,040
the field than ever before

1072
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:54,720
but not one piece of evidence

1073
00:41:03,670 --> 00:41:00,790
sorry to be a downer but you guys know

1074
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:03,680
that you're in this room

1075
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:06,880
there's been some false alarms

1076
00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:08,160
the search for extraterrestrial

1077
00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:11,040
intelligence went on and at one point we

1078
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:12,400
thought we'd gotten a signal from the

1079
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:13,599
stars turns out it was probably a

1080
00:41:19,510 --> 00:41:16,160
reflection off a satellite

1081
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:21,190
but nothing

1082
00:41:26,309 --> 00:41:22,880
and this is the state of the best radio

1083
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:29,030
kind of depressing should we give up

1084
00:41:33,829 --> 00:41:31,040
are we done

1085
00:41:35,270 --> 00:41:33,839
is there nothing to be

1086
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:35,280
i don't think so and i don't think

1087
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:37,760
anyone in this room thinks so either

1088
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:38,880
because we are

1089
00:41:46,230 --> 00:41:43,599
just beginning to explore the universe

1090
00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:46,240
55 years ago there were three planets

1091
00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:48,560
and they weren't even real when i was an

1092
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:52,160
astronomer student in 1994

1093
00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:54,240
i got into exoplanets and everyone

1094
00:41:58,390 --> 00:41:56,720
laughed at me because it was the bottom

1095
00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:58,400
of the totem pole everyone was

1096
00:42:04,150 --> 00:42:01,599
interested in in huge structures galaxy

1097
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:04,160
clusters the cosmos who's interested in

1098
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:05,760
planets there's nothing there and the

1099
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:07,359
next year what happened we discovered

1100
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:09,520
the first exoplanets and now there are a

1101
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:12,160
10 000 discovered exoplanets and more

1102
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:14,880
every day and we've got tessa and we've

1103
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:18,000
got jim webb just went up

1104
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:20,560
and there's every reason to believe that

1105
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,000
our knowledge of the universe is going

1106
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:24,720
to expand tremendously

1107
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:27,040
and even if we don't find alien life an

1108
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:29,280
alien sentient life and i don't think we

1109
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:31,440
will for the reasons i said before i

1110
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:33,040
don't think they're out there listening

1111
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:34,880
to us either they can't hear us because

1112
00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:36,720
they haven't developed radio yet or even

1113
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:38,560
brains yet

1114
00:42:42,710 --> 00:42:41,440
or they're far beyond us

1115
00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:42,720
i don't think we're going to find them

1116
00:42:47,030 --> 00:42:45,040
conventionally but i think everyone in

1117
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:47,040
this room would be perfectly happy if we

1118
00:42:50,870 --> 00:42:49,520
found a microbe

1119
00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:50,880
if we found

1120
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:52,960
some kind of biochemistry that arose

1121
00:42:57,430 --> 00:42:55,920
differently from ours to tell us so much

1122
00:43:00,069 --> 00:42:57,440
about how

1123
00:43:01,829 --> 00:43:00,079
chemistry and physics and biology work

1124
00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:01,839
that's what we're waiting for

1125
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:03,440
and we keep refining our techniques and

1126
00:43:07,510 --> 00:43:05,520
our instruments and i think one day we

1127
00:43:10,230 --> 00:43:07,520
will find it and even if we don't find

1128
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:10,240
it even if we never find it

1129
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,480
that's knowledge too

1130
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:14,960
and in the process we will make a map of

1131
00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:18,720
the universe so comprehensive

1132
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:20,000
that we'll know

1133
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:22,640
as much as we possibly can

1134
00:43:26,950 --> 00:43:24,319
and let's face it

1135
00:43:28,870 --> 00:43:26,960
the one thing that gets the populace

1136
00:43:31,109 --> 00:43:28,880
interested in what we do

1137
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:31,119
is the search for life

1138
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:33,040
people want to find other people out

1139
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:34,720
there maybe it's that terran chauvinism

1140
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:36,000
i was talking about maybe it's

1141
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:37,920
loneliness maybe it's hope that someone

1142
00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:39,200
can fix our problems that maybe

1143
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:41,280
someone's already fixed problems maybe

1144
00:43:44,950 --> 00:43:43,280
it's just extroversion we really want

1145
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:44,960
someone to talk to

1146
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:46,560
or maybe for some of us it's just the

1147
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:49,280
interesting physical problem

1148
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:50,880
but i think it's worth continuing for

1149
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:52,800
all those reasons

1150
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:54,960
and i hope this talk has given you a

1151
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:56,880
little bit of insight a little bit of

1152
00:44:00,069 --> 00:43:58,240
excitement

1153
00:44:00,950 --> 00:44:00,079
showing you how far we've come in 55

1154
00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:00,960
years

1155
00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:03,200
and also just how groovy a time it was

1156
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:09,510
so if you enjoyed this talk

1157
00:44:14,950 --> 00:44:11,280
i uh i do this kind of thing at

1158
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:14,960
universities libraries planetarium

1159
00:44:19,349 --> 00:44:17,760
weddings bar mitzvahs

1160
00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:19,359
so after this feel free to get a card we

1161
00:44:23,109 --> 00:44:20,640
still have some time and one of my

1162
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:23,119
favorite things is q a so you have any

1163
00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:26,160
questions about the 60s the science of

1164
00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:28,640
the time the zeitgeist of the time the

1165
00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:30,400
science fiction of the time i'm here to

1166
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:32,640
answer any of your questions until you

1167
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:34,079
get tired and want to go join me at the

1168
00:44:38,190 --> 00:44:36,240
tiki bar

1169
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:38,200
and now you can applaud if you want

1170
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,430
any questions

1171
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:55,190
mom

1172
00:44:59,829 --> 00:44:58,309
people didn't know in the 60s uh hello

1173
00:45:01,910 --> 00:44:59,839
i'm surprised that people didn't know in

1174
00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:01,920
the 60s that

1175
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:04,960
venus was uninhabitable i mean couldn't

1176
00:45:08,950 --> 00:45:07,440
you see what the composition of the

1177
00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:08,960
atmosphere was at that time with

1178
00:45:12,069 --> 00:45:10,480
spectroscopy

1179
00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:12,079
you could tell that there was carbon

1180
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:14,240
dioxide in the atmosphere you could not

1181
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:16,319
tell the density

1182
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,760
and there was also

1183
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:19,599
there were models that

1184
00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:22,079
suggested that you could have this thick

1185
00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:24,000
atmosphere and still if it operated

1186
00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:26,000
certain ways was not too hot on the

1187
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:28,720
surface um it was not until we actually

1188
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:30,319
went there mariner 2 didn't even have a

1189
00:45:35,750 --> 00:45:33,760
camera all it had was a magnetometer um

1190
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:35,760
and a and a radiometer to see the

1191
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:36,880
temperature

1192
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:37,760
um

1193
00:45:41,109 --> 00:45:39,760
it wasn't until then that we knew which

1194
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:41,119
model was accurate and it was the one

1195
00:45:44,470 --> 00:45:42,960
that said this is a really hot planet

1196
00:45:46,150 --> 00:45:44,480
all right

1197
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:46,160
sorry

1198
00:45:49,430 --> 00:45:47,760
although um we actually were already

1199
00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:49,440
getting radar data at that time that

1200
00:45:52,870 --> 00:45:51,440
suggested it was hot we have another

1201
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:52,880
question and thank you to the person

1202
00:45:58,390 --> 00:45:55,119
running delivering the microphone

1203
00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:58,400
it's like uber microphone so um for uh

1204
00:46:02,150 --> 00:46:00,160
given that this was like uh

1205
00:46:05,109 --> 00:46:02,160
during the cold war were there any

1206
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:05,119
sci-fi stories where the aliens are sort

1207
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:06,720
of preferentially siding with the

1208
00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:09,359
russians or the americans

1209
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,800
no

1210
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:12,079
actually

1211
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:14,400
um no that's a good question right do

1212
00:46:20,550 --> 00:46:16,560
the aliens come and work through people

1213
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:20,560
almost invariably the aliens are the

1214
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:22,240
external threat

1215
00:46:27,829 --> 00:46:25,119
that either unites us against them

1216
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:27,839
or takes advantage of our internal

1217
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:35,910
sometimes the aliens are stand-ins for

1218
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:38,640
the enemy so for instance the klingons

1219
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:40,079
are the

1220
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:44,880
they're probably the chinese

1221
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:46,720
um but in terms of the aliens coming

1222
00:46:50,550 --> 00:46:48,560
down and saying we choose

1223
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:50,560
union to be our representative on this

1224
00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:53,119
earth sorry yankees um

1225
00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:57,280
no that actually does not happen

1226
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:58,880
yeah here

1227
00:47:02,550 --> 00:47:00,880
hi um

1228
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:02,560
yeah actually it was scar sagan the

1229
00:47:06,790 --> 00:47:05,440
first one that uh got closer to the

1230
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:06,800
surface of the

1231
00:47:11,349 --> 00:47:09,200
of the temperature of the surface venus

1232
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:11,359
venus um

1233
00:47:18,470 --> 00:47:16,160
right in 1960 using the radio uh

1234
00:47:20,309 --> 00:47:18,480
because basically the idea was it is

1235
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:20,319
there is clouds we cannot see anything

1236
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:22,400
then there should be the dinosaurs or

1237
00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:23,599
something like that

1238
00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:24,400
um

1239
00:47:28,630 --> 00:47:26,800
but i was i was going to ask you about

1240
00:47:31,829 --> 00:47:28,640
the this uh

1241
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:31,839
the meteorite uh because i i think that

1242
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:33,599
the picture there

1243
00:47:38,549 --> 00:47:36,800
that was the l a l h

1244
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:38,559
84 0

1245
00:47:49,270 --> 00:47:46,950
for yes yeah so so the the one you

1246
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:49,280
mentioned you said it was in the 60s

1247
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:52,400
there was another meteorite

1248
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:53,200
where

1249
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:55,680
there were claims about life and did

1250
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:58,160
that meteorite that is correct so in the

1251
00:48:02,230 --> 00:48:00,800
19th century i believe in the 1860s

1252
00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:02,240
there was a meteorite that fell near

1253
00:48:06,870 --> 00:48:04,240
orgoel france and became known as the

1254
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:06,880
orgoel meteorite and even from an early

1255
00:48:10,309 --> 00:48:07,839
time

1256
00:48:12,549 --> 00:48:10,319
there were reports that there were

1257
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:12,559
that chemical analysis suggested there

1258
00:48:18,549 --> 00:48:15,920
was life on this thing and then in 1965

1259
00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:18,559
someone found little microbes like that

1260
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:20,240
uh it turns out it was conta it was

1261
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:24,720
artificially inserted contamination

1262
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:25,599
okay

1263
00:48:31,510 --> 00:48:27,920
thank you and you should see the santo

1264
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:31,520
movies in mexico against the martians

1265
00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:33,839
those are fantastic so she mentions the

1266
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:38,079
santo movies el santo el santo is a hero

1267
00:48:42,230 --> 00:48:40,000
in mexican science fiction he's an actor

1268
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:42,240
actually a luchador

1269
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:43,280
and

1270
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:44,960
so we actually i told you about galactic

1271
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:46,559
journey we actually we started with just

1272
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:48,720
me now there's 20 authors from around

1273
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:50,319
the world writing for this thing

1274
00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:51,920
including we had a correspondent from

1275
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:54,000
behind the iron curtain and we had a

1276
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:56,160
mexican writer who wrote an article

1277
00:49:00,069 --> 00:48:57,920
about the el santo movie so if you go to

1278
00:49:01,510 --> 00:49:00,079
galactic journey and look up el santo

1279
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:01,520
you will actually see the character that

1280
00:49:04,390 --> 00:49:02,720
she is talking about thank you for

1281
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:04,400
bringing that up

1282
00:49:08,230 --> 00:49:06,319
um you didn't talk at all about ray

1283
00:49:10,710 --> 00:49:08,240
bradbury's martian chronicles which was

1284
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:10,720
one of the most influential for me

1285
00:49:14,230 --> 00:49:12,640
um could you set that within a context

1286
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:14,240
of the time what was known about mars

1287
00:49:17,589 --> 00:49:15,680
when he wrote it

1288
00:49:19,990 --> 00:49:17,599
so martian chronicles came out in the

1289
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:20,000
early 50s you're right there was um for

1290
00:49:23,349 --> 00:49:21,839
time constraints i realized

1291
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:23,359
almost all science fiction i had to

1292
00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:24,720
leave out if this was going to be done

1293
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:27,040
in less than 20 years

1294
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:29,520
um but yeah ray brad i did mention all

1295
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:31,040
summer and a day for venus so ray

1296
00:49:35,109 --> 00:49:32,240
bradbury does talk about the

1297
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:35,119
colonization of mars although

1298
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:37,280
that was not particularly hard science

1299
00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:39,040
fiction ray bradbury doesn't write

1300
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:40,720
particularly hard science fiction he

1301
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:42,160
wrote in the early 50s what we knew

1302
00:49:45,430 --> 00:49:43,680
about mars was that it had a thin

1303
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:45,440
atmosphere we assumed it was probably

1304
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:48,319
about 10 percent that of earth

1305
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:50,240
so it was like the highest mountains on

1306
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:52,160
earth we believed that some kind of

1307
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:55,680
andean or denver type civilization could

1308
00:50:02,150 --> 00:49:59,040
exist um the martian chronicles

1309
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:02,160
mars is similar to the mars child mars

1310
00:50:08,549 --> 00:50:05,599
of cyril judd it was it was a popular

1311
00:50:12,710 --> 00:50:08,559
difficult but not unrealizable

1312
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:12,720
landscape for science fiction

1313
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:14,559
i have a question thank you

1314
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,119
thank you for the talk here uh

1315
00:50:20,309 --> 00:50:19,440
just maybe correct me if i'm if i'm

1316
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:20,319
wrong

1317
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:23,440
uh i i understand that in many science

1318
00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:24,960
fiction book where there's other

1319
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:27,200
civilization they depict them as

1320
00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:29,359
invasive dangerous

1321
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:31,520
that can they don't want they are not

1322
00:50:36,710 --> 00:50:33,520
nice basically

1323
00:50:38,069 --> 00:50:36,720
and how if this is

1324
00:50:40,549 --> 00:50:38,079
almost correct

1325
00:50:43,109 --> 00:50:40,559
uh how do you would you explain the

1326
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:43,119
apparent contradiction of

1327
00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:46,000
we want to meet other civilization and

1328
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:48,319
whenever we depict those civilization

1329
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:50,319
they are dangerous to us

1330
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:53,599
and whether this can be something due to

1331
00:50:58,790 --> 00:50:55,200
the

1332
00:51:01,270 --> 00:50:58,800
tend to

1333
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:01,280
be devastative uh

1334
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:02,800
yeah i just would like your thoughts

1335
00:51:04,870 --> 00:51:04,160
about that

1336
00:51:07,109 --> 00:51:04,880
so

1337
00:51:09,990 --> 00:51:07,119
it is true that science fiction

1338
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:11,910
scary boogeyman science fiction that we

1339
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:13,359
see in on

1340
00:51:18,230 --> 00:51:15,520
in the movie theaters or science fiction

1341
00:51:19,510 --> 00:51:18,240
that's designed to evoke the terror that

1342
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:19,520
existed at the time we have to

1343
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:20,640
understand

1344
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:22,880
it was a scary time to live in the 60s

1345
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:25,280
we think it's scary now but back then we

1346
00:51:28,230 --> 00:51:26,880
went to sleep thinking you know tomorrow

1347
00:51:29,829 --> 00:51:28,240
could be the end all it takes is someone

1348
00:51:31,990 --> 00:51:29,839
to push the button it had only been five

1349
00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:32,000
years since the cuban missile crisis

1350
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:33,440
that said

1351
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:34,800
don't get a skewed view of science

1352
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:36,480
fiction there are plenty

1353
00:51:39,430 --> 00:51:38,160
plenty of stories where the aliens are

1354
00:51:41,670 --> 00:51:39,440
benign

1355
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:41,680
friendly we work with them sometimes

1356
00:51:44,309 --> 00:51:42,960
they're more advanced than they put us

1357
00:51:44,950 --> 00:51:44,319
on our course star trek is filled with

1358
00:51:47,109 --> 00:51:44,960
them

1359
00:51:50,309 --> 00:51:47,119
larry niven's known space universe has

1360
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:50,319
several aliens uh the kazinti are bad

1361
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:52,480
guys until we beat them enough times and

1362
00:51:56,470 --> 00:51:53,920
then they're our friends uh the

1363
00:51:58,069 --> 00:51:56,480
puppeteers are never bad guys except of

1364
00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:58,079
course they're manipulating all politics

1365
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:00,880
behind the scenes uh the cadet lino the

1366
00:52:06,309 --> 00:52:04,079
purin they're good guys um so there are

1367
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:06,319
there are plenty of examples of science

1368
00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:08,960
fiction of good aliens

1369
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:10,960
or even completely neutral aliens

1370
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:13,599
completely detached aliens the aliens in

1371
00:52:16,790 --> 00:52:14,880
critical point didn't even know we

1372
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:16,800
existed and had no reason to believe we

1373
00:52:20,309 --> 00:52:18,880
existed because their environment was so

1374
00:52:21,910 --> 00:52:20,319
different from ours they never even saw

1375
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:21,920
the sky

1376
00:52:27,829 --> 00:52:24,720
so yes it's true that we often see

1377
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:27,839
aliens as other and bad

1378
00:52:31,750 --> 00:52:30,160
and i and i think that's a bad i hate to

1379
00:52:34,390 --> 00:52:31,760
use the word but i think that's a bad

1380
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:34,400
trope i think it's a bad cliche

1381
00:52:38,630 --> 00:52:36,240
i think science fiction and horror

1382
00:52:42,069 --> 00:52:38,640
particularly in cinema have gotten so

1383
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:42,079
closely intertwined

1384
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:44,400
in space nobody can hear you scream

1385
00:52:48,870 --> 00:52:45,680
right

1386
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:48,880
it's always scary space is scary enough

1387
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:50,720
we don't need aliens to make it worse

1388
00:52:55,109 --> 00:52:52,640
how about the alien that comes up and

1389
00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:55,119
saves the person who gets separated from

1390
00:52:59,670 --> 00:52:56,960
the space shuttle that's what i want to

1391
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:00,870
hi

1392
00:53:05,190 --> 00:53:03,440
great talk um i really enjoyed that so i

1393
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:05,200
don't think i would be an astrobiologist

1394
00:53:08,790 --> 00:53:06,640
if i didn't grow up in the 90s

1395
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:08,800
surrounded by the heyday of star trek um

1396
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:10,880
you know tng deep deep six nine and

1397
00:53:14,710 --> 00:53:12,960
voyager and so i really feel this

1398
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:14,720
feedback between science and science

1399
00:53:18,870 --> 00:53:17,040
fiction in my own life i was wondering

1400
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:18,880
you know in the early 60s when it was

1401
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:22,480
just these like um you know stories

1402
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:24,079
that that not that many people were

1403
00:53:28,309 --> 00:53:26,800
reading was there still a feedback

1404
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:28,319
between science and science fiction i

1405
00:53:31,030 --> 00:53:30,000
mean we know that there were science

1406
00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:31,040
that was inspiring the science fiction

1407
00:53:35,109 --> 00:53:32,400
but was there science fiction that was

1408
00:53:36,230 --> 00:53:35,119
also inspiring scientists at the time

1409
00:53:37,190 --> 00:53:36,240
yes

1410
00:53:39,750 --> 00:53:37,200
um

1411
00:53:41,829 --> 00:53:39,760
so yeah it is a it is a positive

1412
00:53:44,309 --> 00:53:41,839
feedback loop

1413
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:44,319
in the 50s

1414
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:46,480
and the 40s science fiction is mostly

1415
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:48,720
based in the solar system

1416
00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:51,920
1957 sputnik goes up and science fiction

1417
00:53:57,030 --> 00:53:55,040
changes overnight isaac asimov leaves

1418
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:57,040
the field he had been one of science

1419
00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:59,280
fiction's brightest lights

1420
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:01,119
and he goes to do science writing

1421
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:02,240
because what's happening in the

1422
00:54:07,190 --> 00:54:04,880
newspapers is is exciting and all of a

1423
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:07,200
sudden science fiction transitions from

1424
00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:09,760
a planetary

1425
00:54:17,030 --> 00:54:11,040
literature

1426
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:17,040
born of that tradition and then star

1427
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:19,440
trek in turn feeds everybody else like

1428
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:20,160
you

1429
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:22,240
back into it absolutely back and forth

1430
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:23,520
in science fiction the whole point of

1431
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:25,520
science fiction is you're always on the

1432
00:54:28,870 --> 00:54:26,880
next step

1433
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:28,880
going to that cutting edge and then

1434
00:54:32,710 --> 00:54:31,040
inspiring the scientists to follow suit

1435
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:32,720
absolutely

1436
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:34,800
i have a question so you focused a lot

1437
00:54:39,109 --> 00:54:36,640
of your examples on english speaking

1438
00:54:41,829 --> 00:54:39,119
examples and maybe a little touch on

1439
00:54:43,990 --> 00:54:41,839
mexico but what were other cultures

1440
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:44,000
uh what would with the chinese writing

1441
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:46,480
about in the science fiction and um

1442
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:48,400
maybe in the middle east what were their

1443
00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:51,440
scientific uh science fiction themes and

1444
00:54:54,789 --> 00:54:53,680
how did that did it parallel what was

1445
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:54,799
going on

1446
00:54:58,710 --> 00:54:55,920
with

1447
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:58,720
the discoveries that nasa was doing or

1448
00:55:03,349 --> 00:55:00,559
did they go off in their own direction

1449
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:03,359
it was a fascinating question

1450
00:55:09,670 --> 00:55:05,359
and the answer is

1451
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:13,349
in the 1950s and 60s we have

1452
00:55:17,670 --> 00:55:16,000
we have plenty of stories that could be

1453
00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:17,680
classified today as science fiction

1454
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:19,920
nigeria was writing stories as early as

1455
00:55:23,109 --> 00:55:21,440
1920 that we might say is science

1456
00:55:25,270 --> 00:55:23,119
fiction but they were science fiction

1457
00:55:27,430 --> 00:55:25,280
the way frankenstein was science fiction

1458
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:27,440
they were not in

1459
00:55:30,870 --> 00:55:29,440
the central branch the lineage of

1460
00:55:32,549 --> 00:55:30,880
science fiction that has led to star

1461
00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:32,559
trek and everything else today in the

1462
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:35,599
1950s and 1960s the only two countries

1463
00:55:39,589 --> 00:55:37,440
only the only

1464
00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:39,599
two languages i should say that were

1465
00:55:43,510 --> 00:55:40,720
producing

1466
00:55:46,470 --> 00:55:43,520
new innovative science fiction were

1467
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:46,480
english and russian in the mid 60s you

1468
00:55:51,670 --> 00:55:49,520
start to get japanese science fiction

1469
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:51,680
literary science fiction happening

1470
00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:52,480
um

1471
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:53,520
europe

1472
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:55,040
uh science fiction is on the client

1473
00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:57,599
obviously jules verne is not

1474
00:56:01,030 --> 00:55:59,680
is not english speaking um and he was

1475
00:56:03,430 --> 00:56:01,040
hard science fiction before we had a

1476
00:56:04,630 --> 00:56:03,440
name for the term but in 1960s french

1477
00:56:06,470 --> 00:56:04,640
science fiction is actually on the

1478
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:06,480
decline

1479
00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:08,160
the magazine of fantasy and science

1480
00:56:13,030 --> 00:56:10,160
fiction is translated into tons of

1481
00:56:15,510 --> 00:56:13,040
languages and is the main outlet for for

1482
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:15,520
science fiction in europe at this time

1483
00:56:19,510 --> 00:56:16,880
so if you want science fiction it's

1484
00:56:21,910 --> 00:56:19,520
really england the united states and the

1485
00:56:24,390 --> 00:56:21,920
soviet union now that is why we had a

1486
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:24,400
soviet correspondent um to cover the

1487
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:25,359
stories that were coming out of the

1488
00:56:29,670 --> 00:56:27,200
soviet union and those do come from an

1489
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:29,680
interesting different tradition because

1490
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:32,799
soviet science fiction has to assume

1491
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:35,440
that sometime in the future

1492
00:56:40,230 --> 00:56:38,480
communism has reached

1493
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:40,240
its ideal right right now they're stuck

1494
00:56:43,750 --> 00:56:42,240
in socialism but eventually communism is

1495
00:56:45,270 --> 00:56:43,760
going to succeed

1496
00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:45,280
and this is the world we're going to

1497
00:56:49,190 --> 00:56:47,520
have after communism exists and

1498
00:56:50,549 --> 00:56:49,200
sometimes the stories are as boring as

1499
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:50,559
you would imagine they would be in that

1500
00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:52,880
kind of universe sometimes people manage

1501
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:55,119
to write interesting stories despite

1502
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:57,040
that requirement of soviet science

1503
00:57:00,789 --> 00:56:59,040
fiction

1504
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:00,799
but in the 50s and 60s we're talking

1505
00:57:05,670 --> 00:57:02,400
about a time when most countries were

1506
00:57:07,430 --> 00:57:05,680
still trying to figure out how to exist

1507
00:57:09,430 --> 00:57:07,440
israeli science fiction for instance

1508
00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:09,440
doesn't really come into existence until

1509
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:12,000
the 90s partly because the idea was look

1510
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:14,559
we are too busy making a country we

1511
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:17,040
don't have time to dream about this

1512
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:19,680
frivolous stuff

1513
00:57:24,069 --> 00:57:21,200
um um

1514
00:57:27,190 --> 00:57:24,079
i have a friend organized who's uh who's

1515
00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:27,200
the first nigerian to be a hugo finalist

1516
00:57:31,750 --> 00:57:29,760
really great guy um and i talked to him

1517
00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:31,760
about this very topic when did these

1518
00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:32,960
other countries develop a science

1519
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,880
fiction tradition and the answer is

1520
00:57:39,109 --> 00:57:36,559
a long time ago if you include like

1521
00:57:41,270 --> 00:57:39,119
folklore or allegory type stories but if

1522
00:57:43,030 --> 00:57:41,280
you're talking direct lineage from the

1523
00:57:44,789 --> 00:57:43,040
magazine of fantasy and science fiction

1524
00:57:46,470 --> 00:57:44,799
and galaxy and analog

1525
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:46,480
and then now they have their own science

1526
00:57:50,549 --> 00:57:48,000
fiction periodicals and they're writing

1527
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:50,559
conventional science fiction that's a

1528
00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:53,040
very recent phenomenon in nigeria and in

1529
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:54,960
a lot of other places

1530
00:58:03,589 --> 00:58:01,030
the question that i had was exactly

1531
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:03,599
along these lines and that

1532
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:06,240
we had our rivals and i was going to ask

1533
00:58:09,750 --> 00:58:07,200
what was

1534
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:09,760
soviet science fiction like

1535
00:58:13,750 --> 00:58:11,599
and you've answered that

1536
00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:13,760
and that it was very much like socialist

1537
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:15,040
realism

1538
00:58:22,230 --> 00:58:19,680
which uh could be as as as boring as uh

1539
00:58:23,829 --> 00:58:22,240
as one can possibly imagine novels like

1540
00:58:25,349 --> 00:58:23,839
cement

1541
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:25,359
being really

1542
00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:27,280
the best of the genre

1543
00:58:32,549 --> 00:58:30,400
however it is also true that by

1544
00:58:35,349 --> 00:58:32,559
the early 70s

1545
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:35,359
you had people you know real geniuses

1546
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:37,280
like tarkovsky

1547
00:58:40,390 --> 00:58:38,640
uh making

1548
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:40,400
um

1549
00:58:44,390 --> 00:58:42,319
science fiction that was at least as

1550
00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:44,400
serious as the most serious science

1551
00:58:48,309 --> 00:58:46,000
fiction films

1552
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:48,319
uh made here in the west

1553
00:58:53,990 --> 00:58:50,640
and so he couldn't have just come out of

1554
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:54,000
nowhere so what was maybe happening in

1555
00:58:58,789 --> 00:58:57,680
the 60s in in soviet science fiction

1556
00:59:01,349 --> 00:58:58,799
literature

1557
00:59:02,309 --> 00:59:01,359
was there um

1558
00:59:05,270 --> 00:59:02,319
uh

1559
00:59:08,470 --> 00:59:05,280
could it be predicted that movies of the

1560
00:59:10,710 --> 00:59:08,480
quality that tarkovsky made in the 70s

1561
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:10,720
um were going to come out of that

1562
00:59:16,470 --> 00:59:12,319
country absolutely you've got the

1563
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:18,549
you if you if you go to galactic journey

1564
00:59:22,710 --> 00:59:20,319
and you look up the soviet union if you

1565
00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:22,720
do just do a search for soviet union um

1566
00:59:26,470 --> 00:59:24,720
not only do we have a couple of

1567
00:59:27,829 --> 00:59:26,480
collections of stories that came out of

1568
00:59:29,829 --> 00:59:27,839
the soviet which is what they assumed

1569
00:59:31,190 --> 00:59:29,839
would be the most sellable here they

1570
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:31,200
they figured it was their best and maybe

1571
00:59:36,150 --> 00:59:33,200
the most appealing to a western audience

1572
00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:36,160
but a lot of soviet movies came out in

1573
00:59:40,069 --> 00:59:38,559
the late 50s early 60s and got dubbed

1574
00:59:43,030 --> 00:59:40,079
into english

1575
00:59:44,470 --> 00:59:43,040
and a lot of those have more interesting

1576
00:59:46,230 --> 00:59:44,480
stories

1577
00:59:49,109 --> 00:59:46,240
than then they're contemporaries in the

1578
00:59:51,349 --> 00:59:49,119
west they were big budget uh they were

1579
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:51,359
big science friendly they often posited

1580
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:54,079
a united united earth um sometimes they

1581
00:59:57,430 --> 00:59:55,760
didn't sometimes they they would have a

1582
00:59:59,589 --> 00:59:57,440
northern hemisphere versus the southern

1583
01:00:01,750 --> 00:59:59,599
hemisphere which would be analogs to to

1584
01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:01,760
capitalism versus communism but

1585
01:00:05,910 --> 01:00:03,760
absolutely in the 60s

1586
01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:05,920
soviet science fiction is a going

1587
01:00:11,190 --> 01:00:08,720
concern and we knew that i mean in 66

1588
01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:11,200
sagan does uh co-writes a book sort of

1589
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:13,359
with um i cannot remember the name i

1590
01:00:17,510 --> 01:00:15,119
just read about it um but they write a

1591
01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:17,520
book in 66 talking about life

1592
01:00:20,710 --> 01:00:19,280
beyond the solar system and it's an

1593
01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:20,720
interesting collaboration because what

1594
01:00:24,069 --> 01:00:22,799
it really is is they both wrote books

1595
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:24,079
and then they sort of put them together

1596
01:00:27,510 --> 01:00:26,000
and did commentary on each other um i

1597
01:00:33,670 --> 01:00:27,520
cannot remember the name of the book but

1598
01:00:39,030 --> 01:00:35,789
i grew in the

1599
01:00:40,470 --> 01:00:39,040
1970s reading a lot of spanish stories

1600
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:40,480
from spain

1601
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:43,280
and i was amazed of all so many alters

1602
01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:46,240
usually they use a a

1603
01:00:52,470 --> 01:00:49,520
english dynamo i remember one series of

1604
01:00:54,230 --> 01:00:52,480
stories the galaxy 2000 where there were

1605
01:00:56,789 --> 01:00:54,240
stories about planets

1606
01:00:57,829 --> 01:00:56,799
and in visiting astronauts and other

1607
01:00:59,430 --> 01:00:57,839
planets

1608
01:01:02,549 --> 01:00:59,440
and and and

1609
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:02,559
my question is is this something that is

1610
01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:03,440
now

1611
01:01:08,230 --> 01:01:05,839
ignored or or their people are

1612
01:01:11,109 --> 01:01:08,240
translating it was not that popular so

1613
01:01:13,990 --> 01:01:11,119
the stories was in 1960s and

1614
01:01:15,670 --> 01:01:14,000
you're are you asking if in 2022 there

1615
01:01:17,109 --> 01:01:15,680
are people translating these older

1616
01:01:19,670 --> 01:01:17,119
stories

1617
01:01:21,750 --> 01:01:19,680
well you just you said that the language

1618
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:21,760
that for this science fiction was one

1619
01:01:27,430 --> 01:01:24,480
less popular for english and russian

1620
01:01:29,589 --> 01:01:27,440
but for me i got impression that

1621
01:01:31,109 --> 01:01:29,599
they were in spanish very popular at

1622
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:31,119
least from spain

1623
01:01:35,750 --> 01:01:34,240
so is this something that is uh unknown

1624
01:01:38,309 --> 01:01:35,760
or or

1625
01:01:40,789 --> 01:01:38,319
or also people are keeping a track of

1626
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:40,799
these stories and translating them

1627
01:01:43,750 --> 01:01:43,040
not in the 60s

1628
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:43,760
so

1629
01:01:49,990 --> 01:01:47,760
science fiction in the 70s and 80s and

1630
01:01:51,910 --> 01:01:50,000
90s is more limited than my knowledge of

1631
01:01:55,270 --> 01:01:51,920
science fiction from the early 50s to

1632
01:01:57,990 --> 01:01:55,280
the 60s and that's by design part of the

1633
01:01:59,910 --> 01:01:58,000
charm and the import of galactic journey

1634
01:02:02,069 --> 01:01:59,920
is we review the stories

1635
01:02:03,589 --> 01:02:02,079
in context now obviously we know we're

1636
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:03,599
writing for a modern audience so we make

1637
01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:04,799
sure that you're interested and

1638
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:06,400
occasionally we have little winks but

1639
01:02:10,309 --> 01:02:08,880
for the most part we try to understand

1640
01:02:11,990 --> 01:02:10,319
why people were writing these stories

1641
01:02:13,750 --> 01:02:12,000
back then and as a result i don't even

1642
01:02:15,990 --> 01:02:13,760
know who's going to win the hugos in

1643
01:02:17,190 --> 01:02:16,000
1967 and if anyone spoils me i will be

1644
01:02:19,349 --> 01:02:17,200
very upset

1645
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:19,359
so i can't tell you what we thought of

1646
01:02:23,270 --> 01:02:21,359
spanish science fiction in the 70s

1647
01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:23,280
because i'm not there yet i would guess

1648
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:24,880
that the 70s would be about the time

1649
01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:26,880
that european science fiction italian

1650
01:02:30,390 --> 01:02:29,280
spanish french german

1651
01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:30,400
um

1652
01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:32,240
all right so i've given the german short

1653
01:02:35,589 --> 01:02:34,400
shrift we have a german correspondent i

1654
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:35,599
should say we have a west german

1655
01:02:39,510 --> 01:02:37,760
correspondent and that's cora bullard

1656
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:39,520
she's also been on the ballot for the

1657
01:02:43,589 --> 01:02:41,760
hugo fan writer many times so i've been

1658
01:02:45,990 --> 01:02:43,599
utterly remiss there is german science

1659
01:02:47,910 --> 01:02:46,000
fiction in fact there is a german show

1660
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:47,920
you could call it the german answer to

1661
01:02:51,829 --> 01:02:50,400
star trek except that it came out

1662
01:02:54,309 --> 01:02:51,839
completely independently and that was

1663
01:02:56,950 --> 01:02:54,319
called space patrol orion there were

1664
01:02:59,190 --> 01:02:56,960
only seven episodes only one season but

1665
01:03:00,630 --> 01:02:59,200
it was brilliant and i believe you can

1666
01:03:02,870 --> 01:03:00,640
get your hands on it through some

1667
01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:02,880
streaming networks so look for space

1668
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:09,349
the germans absolutely had a science

1669
01:03:19,670 --> 01:03:17,430
oh here me again um

1670
01:03:22,630 --> 01:03:19,680
latin america has a long history of

1671
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:22,640
science fiction too um since the 19th

1672
01:03:27,510 --> 01:03:25,920
century so it's uh um

1673
01:03:29,349 --> 01:03:27,520
i think it's

1674
01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:29,359
i mean i know we have a lot of problems

1675
01:03:33,029 --> 01:03:30,480
and we have to think about those

1676
01:03:34,870 --> 01:03:33,039
problems but one one way of thinking

1677
01:03:36,789 --> 01:03:34,880
about those problems is writing about

1678
01:03:39,589 --> 01:03:36,799
the future

1679
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:39,599
so we do have so maybe i wouldn't say

1680
01:03:43,430 --> 01:03:40,880
that

1681
01:03:45,109 --> 01:03:43,440
china or i don't know other countries in

1682
01:03:47,829 --> 01:03:45,119
asia or

1683
01:03:50,549 --> 01:03:47,839
um africa don't have science fiction

1684
01:03:53,750 --> 01:03:50,559
because it's just like

1685
01:03:57,270 --> 01:03:53,760
we have been colonized and our histories

1686
01:03:58,470 --> 01:03:57,280
have been deleted purposely by

1687
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:58,480
white people

1688
01:04:02,309 --> 01:04:01,200
so i would be careful saying those kind

1689
01:04:03,349 --> 01:04:02,319
of things

1690
01:04:05,029 --> 01:04:03,359
and

1691
01:04:06,710 --> 01:04:05,039
i don't want to

1692
01:04:08,630 --> 01:04:06,720
and and i

1693
01:04:10,470 --> 01:04:08,640
let me let me say this better thank you

1694
01:04:13,270 --> 01:04:10,480
for that

1695
01:04:15,990 --> 01:04:13,280
there are plenty of

1696
01:04:18,309 --> 01:04:16,000
genres that are native to many countries

1697
01:04:21,510 --> 01:04:18,319
to every every country has its literary

1698
01:04:27,829 --> 01:04:24,630
are necessarily different from

1699
01:04:29,990 --> 01:04:27,839
an english science fiction tradition so

1700
01:04:31,589 --> 01:04:30,000
when i say that there is not science

1701
01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:31,599
fiction in these other languages i'm not

1702
01:04:34,789 --> 01:04:33,359
saying there is not a literary tradition

1703
01:04:37,029 --> 01:04:34,799
and that there's not

1704
01:04:38,549 --> 01:04:37,039
speculative elements in these writings

1705
01:04:41,109 --> 01:04:38,559
all i'm saying is that there's a very

1706
01:04:43,589 --> 01:04:41,119
specific genre that is the western

1707
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:43,599
science fiction story

1708
01:04:47,910 --> 01:04:46,240
and that genre is worldwide now and is

1709
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:47,920
being contributed specifically by

1710
01:04:53,029 --> 01:04:50,240
countries all over the world

1711
01:04:54,470 --> 01:04:53,039
that particular genre was not being

1712
01:04:56,870 --> 01:04:54,480
participated in

1713
01:04:59,190 --> 01:04:56,880
by other languages at that time other

1714
01:05:00,950 --> 01:04:59,200
countries at that time that particular

1715
01:05:05,990 --> 01:05:00,960
threat of it

1716
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:15,270
not trying to move the goal post

1717
01:05:18,710 --> 01:05:16,870
so i know you've been

1718
01:05:20,549 --> 01:05:18,720
sorry i know you've been concentrating

1719
01:05:31,029 --> 01:05:20,559
on

1720
01:05:31,990 --> 01:05:31,039
would actually very much love if you

1721
01:05:35,349 --> 01:05:32,000
have

1722
01:05:37,510 --> 01:05:35,359
some names i would love to be educated

1723
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:37,520
as to the authors that you are referring

1724
01:05:41,829 --> 01:05:38,559
to because i would love to know more

1725
01:05:46,950 --> 01:05:43,349
so you've been concentrating on the

1726
01:05:50,950 --> 01:05:46,960
1950s and 60s

1727
01:05:52,390 --> 01:05:50,960
how do you see lovecraft as a

1728
01:05:53,510 --> 01:05:52,400
influencer

1729
01:05:55,829 --> 01:05:53,520
of

1730
01:05:58,470 --> 01:05:55,839
modern science fiction

1731
01:06:01,510 --> 01:05:58,480
well lovecraft is 20s and 30s i've

1732
01:06:03,349 --> 01:06:01,520
actually as it turns out i i'm not

1733
01:06:05,910 --> 01:06:03,359
my knowledge of science fiction before

1734
01:06:07,589 --> 01:06:05,920
1950 is fairly thin

1735
01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:07,599
with the exception of edgar

1736
01:06:11,349 --> 01:06:09,440
riceborough's and h.p lovecraft i've

1737
01:06:13,990 --> 01:06:11,359
actually read every single thing that

1738
01:06:16,470 --> 01:06:14,000
guy ever wrote including like letters to

1739
01:06:17,670 --> 01:06:16,480
editors i was a masochist for a couple

1740
01:06:19,670 --> 01:06:17,680
of years

1741
01:06:22,309 --> 01:06:19,680
h.p lovecraft

1742
01:06:23,910 --> 01:06:22,319
wrote three excellent stories

1743
01:06:25,750 --> 01:06:23,920
and a bunch of rough drafts for those

1744
01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:25,760
stories he kept publishing over and over

1745
01:06:29,349 --> 01:06:27,680
in magazines

1746
01:06:31,670 --> 01:06:29,359
h.p lovecraft was huge but he didn't

1747
01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:31,680
write science fiction he wrote weird

1748
01:06:36,069 --> 01:06:34,000
tales specifically for the magazine

1749
01:06:37,910 --> 01:06:36,079
weird tales

1750
01:06:39,510 --> 01:06:37,920
the closest he comes to science fiction

1751
01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:39,520
i would say is the mountains of madness

1752
01:06:44,150 --> 01:06:42,319
which features aliens in antarctica

1753
01:06:46,069 --> 01:06:44,160
and i think that's influenced some

1754
01:06:47,190 --> 01:06:46,079
things you could argue that maybe that

1755
01:06:48,710 --> 01:06:47,200
influenced

1756
01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:48,720
john campbell's who goes there which

1757
01:06:53,109 --> 01:06:51,200
ultimately influenced the 1982 john

1758
01:06:56,309 --> 01:06:53,119
carpenter the thing movie

1759
01:06:58,390 --> 01:06:56,319
h.p lovecraft's influence on the genre

1760
01:07:01,589 --> 01:06:58,400
was profound

1761
01:07:03,029 --> 01:07:01,599
but again just as i was saying that

1762
01:07:05,029 --> 01:07:03,039
these other countries were not producing

1763
01:07:07,589 --> 01:07:05,039
science fiction hp lovecraft was not

1764
01:07:09,190 --> 01:07:07,599
producing what we call this science

1765
01:07:11,829 --> 01:07:09,200
fiction genre

1766
01:07:14,069 --> 01:07:11,839
um which honestly hardly existed at the

1767
01:07:16,470 --> 01:07:14,079
time we mostly found it in places like

1768
01:07:26,069 --> 01:07:16,480
amazing in the late 20s it was a very

1769
01:07:29,109 --> 01:07:27,029
hi so

1770
01:07:31,190 --> 01:07:29,119
just so just so happens that i was

1771
01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:31,200
speaking to another scholar of science

1772
01:07:36,069 --> 01:07:33,920
fiction recently who posited the theory

1773
01:07:38,309 --> 01:07:36,079
that uh science fiction is basically

1774
01:07:39,430 --> 01:07:38,319
humanity's way of trying to express and

1775
01:07:41,750 --> 01:07:39,440
explore

1776
01:07:43,910 --> 01:07:41,760
an inherent contradiction in our

1777
01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:43,920
progress in technology and our progress

1778
01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:45,680
in science so technology gives us these

1779
01:07:51,750 --> 01:07:49,280
amazing tools to manipulate the world to

1780
01:07:54,549 --> 01:07:51,760
our whims whereas scientific discoveries

1781
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:54,559
such as you know other exoplanets and

1782
01:07:57,510 --> 01:07:56,400
and uh the laws of thermodynamics that

1783
01:07:59,829 --> 01:07:57,520
say everything's decaying towards

1784
01:08:02,150 --> 01:07:59,839
entropy make us feel small and actually

1785
01:08:04,630 --> 01:08:02,160
powerless and and very insignificant in

1786
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:04,640
this grand universe so science fiction

1787
01:08:10,069 --> 01:08:06,799
was this exploration essentially emerged

1788
01:08:12,309 --> 01:08:10,079
as this exploration of these contrasting

1789
01:08:14,710 --> 01:08:12,319
uh results of our increasing

1790
01:08:15,670 --> 01:08:14,720
technological prowess and are increasing

1791
01:08:17,110 --> 01:08:15,680
like

1792
01:08:18,070 --> 01:08:17,120
smallness in the universe i was

1793
01:08:19,110 --> 01:08:18,080
wondering what you thought about this

1794
01:08:20,950 --> 01:08:19,120
theory

1795
01:08:23,189 --> 01:08:20,960
it's interesting um the idea that

1796
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:23,199
science fiction is the pretty face we

1797
01:08:26,229 --> 01:08:24,719
draw on the universe because the

1798
01:08:29,189 --> 01:08:26,239
universe is too complicated to

1799
01:08:30,870 --> 01:08:29,199
understand and scary in its complexity

1800
01:08:32,390 --> 01:08:30,880
that's certainly one of the motivations

1801
01:08:34,229 --> 01:08:32,400
i mean we have to remember the primary

1802
01:08:35,189 --> 01:08:34,239
motivation for the existence of science

1803
01:08:36,829 --> 01:08:35,199
fiction

1804
01:08:39,349 --> 01:08:36,839
is to make

1805
01:08:40,709 --> 01:08:39,359
money larry niven when he was selling

1806
01:08:42,550 --> 01:08:40,719
his story well maybe not you because you

1807
01:08:44,149 --> 01:08:42,560
were rich to begin with but

1808
01:08:46,309 --> 01:08:44,159
you probably did it for the fanish love

1809
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:46,319
of it all um there's a lot of reasons to

1810
01:08:50,149 --> 01:08:48,159
write science fiction one

1811
01:08:53,510 --> 01:08:50,159
but but ultimately the point is to tell

1812
01:08:55,990 --> 01:08:53,520
a story and we're science is the core of

1813
01:08:57,349 --> 01:08:56,000
science fiction we love extrapolating

1814
01:09:00,470 --> 01:08:57,359
sometimes we like making social

1815
01:09:02,390 --> 01:09:00,480
commentary sometimes we express analogs

1816
01:09:04,550 --> 01:09:02,400
in science fiction that aren't safe to

1817
01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:04,560
do in our regular fiction

1818
01:09:08,070 --> 01:09:06,080
so we talk about the green people

1819
01:09:11,110 --> 01:09:08,080
instead of the brown people

1820
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:13,749
and sometimes we are making cautionary

1821
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:16,000
stories so i did a talk at georgia tech

1822
01:09:20,550 --> 01:09:17,839
in october which is kind of the reason

1823
01:09:23,510 --> 01:09:20,560
i'm here today called uh doomsday

1824
01:09:25,030 --> 01:09:23,520
predictions of the past and how we make

1825
01:09:27,749 --> 01:09:25,040
and and why they didn't come true and

1826
01:09:30,870 --> 01:09:27,759
how we make the future um and in the 60s

1827
01:09:32,950 --> 01:09:30,880
we believed that overpopulation

1828
01:09:34,390 --> 01:09:32,960
pollution nuclear annihilation these

1829
01:09:37,349 --> 01:09:34,400
were things that were going to destroy

1830
01:09:39,749 --> 01:09:37,359
us if they went on now no science

1831
01:09:41,110 --> 01:09:39,759
fiction person is a soothsayer we don't

1832
01:09:42,709 --> 01:09:41,120
know the future because again we're

1833
01:09:44,709 --> 01:09:42,719
mostly writing to make a buck maybe to

1834
01:09:46,070 --> 01:09:44,719
make a statement

1835
01:09:48,070 --> 01:09:46,080
but

1836
01:09:49,829 --> 01:09:48,080
what we can do is say you know what this

1837
01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:49,839
thing looks like a bad

1838
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:52,159
idea let's write stories about what the

1839
01:09:55,910 --> 01:09:54,080
world looks like if this goes on and

1840
01:09:58,550 --> 01:09:55,920
then the world can look at these stories

1841
01:10:00,149 --> 01:09:58,560
read them and go huh well i didn't

1842
01:10:01,750 --> 01:10:00,159
really understand the problem until it

1843
01:10:04,630 --> 01:10:01,760
was conveyed to me in this easily

1844
01:10:07,189 --> 01:10:04,640
digestible form of a story or a movie

1845
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:07,199
now that i've seen soylent green

1846
01:10:24,950 --> 01:10:08,640
maybe i am going to be an advocate for

1847
01:10:28,830 --> 01:10:26,709
uh

1848
01:10:41,189 --> 01:10:28,840
all right this is the last

1849
01:10:44,390 --> 01:10:43,110
can you hear me are there any examples

1850
01:10:46,390 --> 01:10:44,400
um

1851
01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:46,400
fiction writers

1852
01:10:48,870 --> 01:10:47,520
um

1853
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:48,880
addicting

1854
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:50,880
uh is their writer just

1855
01:10:54,070 --> 01:10:51,760
it's

1856
01:10:56,149 --> 01:10:54,080
uh uh science these are not scientists

1857
01:10:57,350 --> 01:10:56,159
but writers making predictions about the

1858
01:10:59,110 --> 01:10:57,360
future

1859
01:11:01,270 --> 01:10:59,120
and then that actually becoming

1860
01:11:02,950 --> 01:11:01,280
technologically true but they were

1861
01:11:06,870 --> 01:11:02,960
artists making the interpretation not

1862
01:11:10,790 --> 01:11:08,950
star trek of course is a stellar example

1863
01:11:12,870 --> 01:11:10,800
although in some cases it's a matter of

1864
01:11:15,110 --> 01:11:12,880
the people inspired by star trek then

1865
01:11:17,830 --> 01:11:15,120
created the technologies they saw in the

1866
01:11:24,229 --> 01:11:22,310
do you ever watch the show green hornet

1867
01:11:29,110 --> 01:11:24,239
green hornet

1868
01:11:30,149 --> 01:11:29,120
the batman 66

1869
01:11:32,070 --> 01:11:30,159
that one

1870
01:11:33,750 --> 01:11:32,080
by the same people william dozier and it

1871
01:11:36,390 --> 01:11:33,760
was designed it was supposed to be the

1872
01:11:38,470 --> 01:11:36,400
serious alternative to batman and it's a

1873
01:11:40,070 --> 01:11:38,480
great show and it's really kind of

1874
01:11:41,990 --> 01:11:40,080
criminal that it's not better remembered

1875
01:11:44,950 --> 01:11:42,000
it only lasted one season there's even a

1876
01:11:46,470 --> 01:11:44,960
couple of crossover episodes with batman

1877
01:11:48,229 --> 01:11:46,480
and if you watch it one of the things

1878
01:11:50,950 --> 01:11:48,239
that their their version of the

1879
01:11:54,149 --> 01:11:50,960
batmobile called the black beauty has is

1880
01:11:55,750 --> 01:11:54,159
it has these little flying things come

1881
01:11:58,310 --> 01:11:55,760
out of the trunk

1882
01:12:00,630 --> 01:11:58,320
and fly soundlessly overhead with

1883
01:12:02,310 --> 01:12:00,640
cameras on board so you can see what's

1884
01:12:04,070 --> 01:12:02,320
below you

1885
01:12:06,790 --> 01:12:04,080
you may have seen these in real life in

1886
01:12:08,790 --> 01:12:06,800
the 21st century but this was this was

1887
01:12:10,310 --> 01:12:08,800
astonishing when i first saw this in

1888
01:12:12,950 --> 01:12:10,320
1967.

1889
01:12:14,229 --> 01:12:12,960
you absolutely see plenty of things

1890
01:12:16,390 --> 01:12:14,239
predicted

1891
01:12:18,229 --> 01:12:16,400
in science fiction partly their educated

1892
01:12:19,910 --> 01:12:18,239
guesses if you have a million monkeys

1893
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:19,920
riding on a million typewriters they

1894
01:12:24,390 --> 01:12:21,120
will guess

1895
01:12:26,310 --> 01:12:24,400
the name of the president in 2022

1896
01:12:28,070 --> 01:12:26,320
um for the most part though science

1897
01:12:29,990 --> 01:12:28,080
fiction people are guessing as much as

1898
01:12:30,870 --> 01:12:30,000
anybody else sometimes we know a little

1899
01:12:32,470 --> 01:12:30,880
more

1900
01:12:34,229 --> 01:12:32,480
there was a guy who wrote a fantasy and

1901
01:12:35,830 --> 01:12:34,239
science fiction story just the other day

1902
01:12:39,590 --> 01:12:35,840
and it was about um

1903
01:12:41,270 --> 01:12:39,600
transplanting knowledge into the brain

1904
01:12:42,870 --> 01:12:41,280
and this guy knew where of he spoke

1905
01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:42,880
because he actually had invented the

1906
01:12:47,430 --> 01:12:46,080
first remote control pacemaker so there

1907
01:12:49,510 --> 01:12:47,440
are some people who were actually

1908
01:12:51,030 --> 01:12:49,520
scientists writing science fiction who

1909
01:12:52,070 --> 01:12:51,040
knew enough about the state of the art

1910
01:12:53,830 --> 01:12:52,080
and they could write some pretty

1911
01:12:55,110 --> 01:12:53,840
intelligent science fiction some of

1912
01:12:56,390 --> 01:12:55,120
which came true some of which didn't for

1913
01:12:59,270 --> 01:12:56,400
the most part the people who wrote

1914
01:13:02,149 --> 01:12:59,280
science fiction were not scientists

1915
01:13:03,830 --> 01:13:02,159
we would just read scientific american

1916
01:13:04,870 --> 01:13:03,840
find some cool ideas and turn a story

1917
01:13:06,709 --> 01:13:04,880
from it

1918
01:13:08,310 --> 01:13:06,719
larry niven was one of the masters of

1919
01:13:10,390 --> 01:13:08,320
taking a science fiction article or an

1920
01:13:12,229 --> 01:13:10,400
isaac asimov

1921
01:13:16,950 --> 01:13:12,239
article and turning that into this

1922
01:13:20,550 --> 01:13:18,709
i think that's it if you guys want to

1923
01:13:22,070 --> 01:13:20,560
know more about me and what i do if you

1924
01:13:24,070 --> 01:13:22,080
want to see galactic journey or the

1925
01:13:26,070 --> 01:13:24,080
books we publish

1926
01:13:27,510 --> 01:13:26,080
come up here and get a card

1927
01:13:29,210 --> 01:13:27,520
even if you throw the card away make me